Legislature(1999 - 2000)
03/30/2000 01:12 PM House TRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEE
March 30, 2000
1:12 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Andrew Halcro, Chairman
Representative Bill Hudson
Representative John Cowdery
Representative Allen Kemplen
Representative Vic Kohring
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Beverly Masek
Representative Albert Kookesh
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 384
"An Act establishing the Legislative Road Development Task Force;
and providing for an effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 384(TRA) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 384
SHORT TITLE: ROAD DEVELOPMENT TASK FORCE
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
2/16/00 2214 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
2/16/00 2214 (H) EDT, TRA, FIN
3/07/00 (H) EDT AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 124
3/07/00 (H) Moved CSHB 384(EDT) Out of Committee
3/07/00 (H) MINUTE(EDT)
3/15/00 2494 (H) EDT RPT CS(EDT) 3DP 3NR
3/15/00 2494 (H) DP: BARNES, DYSON, ROKEBERG;
3/15/00 2494 (H) NR: KERTTULA, CISSNA, HALCRO
3/15/00 2494 (H) FISCAL NOTE (LAA)
3/30/00 (H) TRA AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 17
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 24
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 384.
ART KOENINGER
PO Box 22
Chitina, Alaska 99566
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 384.
FRANK DILLON, Executive Vice President
Alaska Trucking Association, Inc.
3443 Minnesota Drive
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 384.
DENNIS POSHARD, Legislative Liaison/Special Assistant
Office of the Commissioner
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities
3132 Channel Drive
Juneau, Alaska 99801-7898
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 384.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 00-25, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIRMAN ANDREW HALCRO called the House Transportation Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:12 p.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives Halcro, Hudson, Cowdery and
Kohring. Representative Kemplen arrived as the meeting was in
progress.
HB 384 - ROAD DEVELOPMENT TASK FORCE
CHAIRMAN HALCRO announced the first and only order of business as
House Bill 384, "An Act establishing the Legislative Road
Development Task Force; and providing for an effective date." The
committee will be discussing CSHB 384(EDT), version 1-LS1452\H.
Number 0038
REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG, Alaska State Legislature, came
before the committee to present the bill. House Bill 384, he said,
focuses on economic development, creating jobs, and opening up the
state for future development. He recalls when the Pioneer Road
Program was approved for the state which allowed for the
establishment of communities that are now growing. It also opened
up areas for settlement and economic development. The state, he
said, should refocus on some of those types of "things." With the
exception of the Whittier road and perhaps one other project near
Skagway, the state of Alaska has not built any new roads per se
other than lane miles for over twenty-five years. He finds that
ludicrous on its face. He asked: How can the state expect to
develop? How can the state expect to take advantage of its natural
resources? How can the state expect to provide recreational
activities and jobs for the children of the future without some
type of true economic development? Everything else, he said, is
lip service. As Representative Con Bunde says, "You can't make a
living making trinkets." House bill 384, therefore, is one way for
the legislature to establish a task force - the Legislative Road
Development Task Force - to focus attention on roads. A minor
fiscal note is attached. The cost should not exceed more than
$11,000 to $12,000.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG continued. The task force's representation
was discussed in the House Special Committee on Economic
Development and Tourism to ensure that there is a cross-section of
people from around the state. The only objection was that a
representative of the environmental community is not a member of
the task force. The environmental community, he stated, does not
deserve a seat at the table, for when it comes to building roads
they aren't stakeholders. They are only stakeholders when they
want to stop roads, not build them. The legislative intent of the
bill, he reiterated, is to build roads, not to stop them from being
built.
Number 0289
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COWDERY stated when he first came to Alaska the
big challenge was the Alcan Highway which, he noted, is now paved.
He further stated that the state doesn't have to meet federal
standards. A dirt or gravel road, for example, could be a
consideration.
Number 0349
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG noted that the state is allowed to
construct roadways that don't meet the latest freeway standards.
The state is able to build gravel roads and even one-lane roads
where appropriate. He also believes that it's possible to build
access roads into certain areas using federal dollars that do not
meet the latest standards. He noted that some of the roads in the
bill are for projects. For example, the proposed Donlin Creek Road
is a few miles long which would go from a mining deposit to the
Kuskokwim River, assuming that the ore mined would be barged down
the river. Similarly, the state financed the road system to the
Red Dog Mine [Kotzebue], and without it the mine would not have
been feasible. He also commented that a road almost exists between
Ruby and McGrath along a mountain top. The old timers didn't build
roads in valleys filled with marsh, tundra and muskeg. They would
build on the hill tops where soil conditions and drainage were
better, and where there was less danger from avalanches.
Number 0485
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY pointed out that the Haul Road was a big
player in North Slope oil production. He said,
At that same time before that was happen, I happen to be
working for the governor in the private sector. And when
he got elected governor he suggested...I was a cat
skinner, you know, I was a heavy equipment...He suggested
getting a couple of cats and go to McGrath, you know. I
went there and came back that we will have a road and
then communities will spot up along the way, and that's
how you open up country to the people. Of course, we
never did that. I'd still like to do it too. I'm gonna
support your bill.
Number 0550
REPRESENTATIVE ALLEN KEMPLEN asked Representative Rokeberg why he
is focusing on just roads as compared to a more comprehensive
perspective. Why wouldn't the state want to consider increased
ferry systems from Southcentral Alaska to Bethel, for example? In
that way, the state could look at transportation as a whole and
determine which option is more cost effective. He noted that the
state is making a fairly significant investment in rural airports,
and it may be more cost effective to maintain that investment
rather than to come forward with an entirely new mode of
transportation.
Number 0694
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG replied the intent of the task force is to
focus on one thing - roads. An intermodal study, he said, is
interesting but it's not the intent of the bill. This is a
"hip-pocket-back, cheap group of people" who are interested in one
thing - the placement of road development in the state as a
priority. It doesn't include railroads because Representative
Jeannette James "does that." It doesn't include airports because
they are well funded, as Representative Kemplen has indicated. The
point of the bill is in fact for twenty-five years the state hasn't
built any roads. Somebody, he said, needs to start championing
road, and he thinks that it should be the legislature as a matter
of public policy.
Number 0780
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN stated the environmental community is very
interested in roads. They actively comment on any type of road
project. It seems that if Representative Rokeberg is really
interested in identifying road initiatives, that are doable and
capable of getting through the system, he would want to have a task
force that mirrors the interests of the community. The lack of a
representative from the environmental community, he said, seems to
be a red flag calling out to be blasted as biased. He asked
Representative Rokeberg why he didn't include someone from the
environmental community on the task force.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG replied he invites that type of criticism
because the environmental community does not want to build roads.
Why on earth would he want to invite anybody who wants to say no to
something that he wants to say yes? The environmental community
claims that they are stakeholders, but they are only stakeholders
by the will that they can force themselves onto other people. He
wants to sit at the table with a group of positive individuals not
a bunch of naysayers and make compromises. The task force is
strictly for the purpose of prioritizing and identifying road
projects that would go to the public process, at which time, the
environmental community would have more than adequate time to
comment on the projects. He said,
So why on earth do I want some jerk who is going to be
officious and hold up a very efficient process by being
a naysayer, nabob, nobody ... that has a decade long
history of stopping development in the state? Now, why
would I be so stupid to invite them to the table?
Number 0966
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked Representative Rokeberg whether he has
the same thoughts in regards to municipal governments. He noticed
that local governments are omitted from the list of participants on
the task force.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG replied it's an issue of trying to find
space for everybody without getting too unwieldy. It's also an
issue of cost. He noted that the House Special Committee on
Economic Development and Tourism added some members to the task
force. He also noted that there is one public member.
Representative Rokeberg further stated that the meetings would be
public; in that regard, anybody is welcome to attend, including
members of the environmental community. He feels like he has been
victimized by the environmental community as a citizen of the
state, which is why he feels so strongly and passionately about
them in relation to the task force.
Number 1038
CHAIRMAN HALCRO explained that the question of having a member of
the environmental community on the task force was discussed in the
House Special Committee on Economic Development and Tourism. It
was felt that whatever comes out of the task force at the end of
the day would be subject to a number of environmental impact
statements, at which point, the environmental community would have
a chance to "weigh in."
Number 1067
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY stated, on the other hand, if Representative
Kemplen wanted to start a task force of environmentalists to build
roads that would be fine. He further noted that the idea of
putting a ferry into Bethel is a lot different than putting in a
road to reach a mineral deposit outside of Bethel, which would also
have the effect of opening up the area and developing communities.
He cited Fort Nelson as an example of a town that started as a
one-road-house until a mining company discovered copper in the
area. The mining company abandoned their stakes because it was a
low-grade copper, but a prospector came in and over staked their
claims; it is now the largest tungsten deposit in North America.
Number 1190
REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON asked Representative Rokeberg whether
the proposed amendment [Amendment 1] in the bill packet is going to
be offered.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG replied he will ask the committee to offer
it.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO opened the meeting to public testimony.
Number 1233
ART KOENINGER testified via teleconference from an off-net site in
Chitina. He has several affiliations. He is a member of the
volunteer fire department. He's an emergency medical technician.
He's chairman of the Community Improvement Association. He's a
member of the Prince William Sound-Copper River Regional
Transportation Plan and Advisory Committee. He was at one time on
the statewide Transportation Policy Advisory Committee. He has
several concerns in relation to the bill. He does not want to be
a nabob of negativity, but he has experience in Chitina with
ill-advised public policies, and this bill undercuts the current
regional and statewide planning process.
MR. KOENINGER continued. The state transportation improvement
plan, he said, is in place and working quite well to establish
priorities. It's a multi-modal approach. This bill, on the other
hand, is "roads for the sake of roads." It's very narrowly focused
and unbalanced. Representative Rokeberg has made it clear that the
intent of the task force is to only listen to certain points of
view.
MR. KOENINGER continued. He noted that roadless areas are
important for subsistence economies, and are important to a lot of
people. He's also concerned about promoting road construction when
the state can't maintain the ones that they have now as the
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities' budget continues
to get cut. It's shortsighted, he said, to build more roads at
this point without addressing these issues.
Number 1382
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Koeninger whether he currently serves on
the regional transportation commission.
MR. KOENINGER replied, "Yes." It's an advisory committee, not a
commission. The committee is working on the regional
transportation plan. He wondered whether the bill would "hijack"
the entire priority process.
Number 1405
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Koeninger to identify some of the
projects that the advisory committee is currently looking at.
MR. KOENINGER replied the advisory committee has mainly focused on
upgrading ferries. The advisory committee has also looked at
alternatives for marine transportation, the Copper River Highway,
and the railroad in their area.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO stated it sounds like the advisory committee is
mostly looking at improving transportation via sea rather than via
inland routes.
MR. KOENINGER stated the advisory committee is also addressing
inland routes. It is also addressing airports.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Koeninger to indicate the last time a new
major road project was completed in the state, apart from the road
to Whittier.
MR. KOENINGER replied the Haul Road. He further commented that the
state is having a hard time dealing with the roads that it
currently has. He noted that there is a group called the Alaska
Citizens Transportation Coalition and suggested including a
representative of the coalition as a member of the task force. It
is a broad-based group comprised of environmentalists; the League
of Women Voters; and various representatives of borough and city
governments, Native village councils and corporations. The
coalition has worked with the Department of Transportation & Public
Facilities in several transportation conferences.
Number 1530
CHAIRMAN HALCRO stated, to Mr. Koeninger, the sponsor has mentioned
that the specific purpose of the bill is to create a road
development task force to look at improving connections within the
state via roads. In comparison, the advisory committee, as Mr.
Koeninger indicated, is looking at all aspects of transportation,
which may mean that roads don't get the focus that they need.
Number 1562
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated, to Mr. Koeninger, that the approach
is to try to provide to subsequent legislatures an identification
of roads that could lead to economic development, which is somewhat
different than most other transportation forums in the state. He
doesn't see the task force as interrupting citizen input in
relation to transportation needs. In fact, all the task force is
doing is trying to get a group of people throughout the state
together who can lend expertise in looking at different roads for
economic development.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON continued. He offered an amendment to the
proposed amendment [Amendment 1] to include a road from Juneau to
Atlin, British Columbia. It has never been fully studied, he said,
and the Tulsequah Chief Deposit is in the area; which, if
developed, could create a lot of jobs in Southeast Alaska and
throughout Canada.
Number 1662
CHAIRMAN HALCRO stated, to Mr. Koeninger, some of the roads in the
bill are not highways and byways; some are just basic points of
connection between mines and transportation corridors. A perfect
example is the Donlin Creek Road. It's 12 miles long and goes from
a mine to a river. It could provide up to 400 full-time jobs, but
it's a road that not very many people would advocate for.
Number 1800
FRANK DILLON, Executive Vice President, Alaska Trucking
Association, Inc., testified via teleconference from Anchorage.
The fact that the association is listed as the first member
designated to the task force doesn't mean that they were an
instigator of the bill; it just means that is where they fell
alphabetically, or with any luck it shows that when Representative
Rokeberg was thinking of roads he thought of the association. Mr.
Dillon further stated the association feels that HB 384 is a very
important piece of legislation because it focuses on roads, similar
to the way TRAAK [Trails and Recreation Access for Alaska] looks at
the development of trails.
MR. DILLON continued. The state doesn't have a department of
highways anymore; the state has a department of transportation and
public facilities which focuses on intermodal types of activities.
In that way, the state has developed new ferries, new ferry routes,
new airports, and hundreds of miles of new trails. But the state
really hasn't developed any new roads. Mr. Dillon further stated
that the association is excited about the potential development of
the task force, and looks forward to being a part of it, for
without surface transportation infrastructures of either rail,
water or road there will not be economic development. And when
looking at the potential developments in natural resources and
tourism every single project requires surface transportation. He
further noted that the airport and airfreight industry in Rural
Alaska is extremely important, but it's also heavily subsidized by
the federal government. If that subsidy disappears, a surface
transportation connection between villages will become even more
important. There are also a lot of winter routes that exist around
the state that could be used as roads. There are individuals, for
example, who regularly drive from Barrow to the connecting road
system in the oil field and on into Fairbanks. He also understands
that the suggested list of twenty roads in the bill are simply
suggestions that came to the sponsor's mind. In other words, the
task force would not be limited to those roads for considerations.
The association, he said in closing, appreciates the idea in the
bill. It's time to focus on the development of roads in the state.
He doesn't believe that the task force would circumvent any of the
processes currently in place; it would simply add a level of
advocacy to the development of roads that most people in the state
would welcome.
Number 1960
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN stated, Why couldn't the association and
similar organizations take the lead in organizing a systematic
study on the need for roads by raising support from their members?
Why come to the legislature and ask to fund a study that deals
specifically with one perspective? It seems more appropriate for
an organization like the Alaska Trucking Association to take on the
responsibility for this type of study rather than the legislature.
MR. DILLON replied all of the money that the Department of
Transportation & Public Facilities spends comes from motorists and
truckers. The association provides service to those who want to
transport items. He said,
Whether it's the food that you're going to have for
dinner tonight, the bed you sleep in, or the building
you're in. Somebody with a truck moved that material to
the location you're at, so that you can enjoy those types
of things. We're a service industry. We feel that we
make a contribution now that is significant to the
transportation system. We provide the money that trails
are built with; that bike paths are paved with; that, in
fact, sidewalks are built with. And we believe that all
those things are important, as well as airports, and as
well as a marine transportation system, which we have
advocated the expansion and the service levels increased
down in Southeast Alaska. I don't think it's very fair
to say that we should establish a reason for the state to
build roads. Road building, I think, in almost any and
every citizen's mind is one of those basic functions like
fire protection and police that is a legitimate and
required government service.
Number 2090
DENNIS POSHARD, Legislative Liaison/Special Assistant, Office of
the Commissioner, Department of Transportation & Public Facilities,
came before the committee to testify. The department fully
supports Representative Rokeberg's efforts to improve
transportation and spur economic development, and should the bill
pass, the department will participate in the process. The
department prefers, however, that the task force look at
transportation problems holistically. The department has already
studied some of the transportation corridors, and has active
studies of several of the proposals that are related to the ongoing
area plans. The department is taking a holistic and scientific
approach to the area plans. They are looking at transportation
models that include capital costs, operation and maintenance costs,
safety, cost-benefit ratios, demands, economic development, et
cetera. The department hopes that the task force would not focus
solely on roads, but broaden their focus to consider many of these
things. The department is also concerned in relation to the cost
of maintenance, for everyone knows that roads are expensive to
maintain, and that over the last several years the department's
budget has been cut. In the three years that he has been with the
department, he cited, the budget has been cut over ten million
dollars, most of which, has been in the maintenance area.
MR. POSHARD continued. The department, he said, has held off in
submitting a fiscal note in the hopes of getting a better handle on
the cost of their participation. It's likely that it would be
zero, and the department is assuming that their participation would
be minimal. He noted that the department submitted a zero fiscal
note last year when the legislature created the privatization task
force, but it ended up costing several hundred hours of staff time
and productivity. The department wants to avoid another situation
like that without requesting funding.
MR. POSHARD continued. The department doesn't want the task force
to usurp the active area planning processes. In response to
Representative Rokeberg's comments, he pointed out that TEA-21
[Transportation Equity Act for the 21st Century] allows Alaska to
use federal money for any road in the state. In response to the
point that the state isn't building any new roads, the
Administration is not opposed to new roads. In fact, the
Administration includes new roads in the area plans and will
probably continue to do so in the future. However, the
Administration has definitely placed an emphasis on bringing
existing roads up to the appropriate standards. For example, if a
road is part of the National Highway System, the Administration has
been trying to bring it up to national standards for width, grade
and alignment. If a road is local, the Administration is trying to
get it out of the mud and gravel it; or as traffic demand warrants,
the Administration is trying to black-top it to minimize
maintenance costs.
MR. POSHARD continued. The Department of Transportation & Public
Facilities is obviously supportive of solving transportation
problems, especially ones that create economic development.
Furthermore, the department occasionally shares Representative
Rokeberg's frustration with the environmental community. The
Whittier tunnel, for example, was litigated all the way to the U.S.
Supreme Court. However, the department feels that transportation
problems should be solved by studying all possible solutions, not
just by looking at one solution.
Number 2360
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN stated he remembers seeing maps of the state
that included roads all over the place from fairly extensive
studies done by the Department of Transportation & Public
Facilities. He asked Mr. Poshard whether the legislation adds
anything new to what has already been done, or whether there's a
high probability that it would be a repeat of efforts already done
by various individuals.
MR. POSHARD replied some transportation corridors mentioned in the
bill have been studied and some have not. He doesn't want to
speculate, however, as to why some have been studied and why some
have not been studied. It's probably a function of need, demand
and funding.
Number 2435
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN asked Mr. Poshard to identify which roads
have already been exhaustively studied by the department.
MR. POSHARD replied that he has a write-up listing the studies that
have been done. He does not consider it exhaustive or final, but
he would be happy to finalize it and submit it the committee.
Number 2462
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked that Mr. Poshard share the studies
with the new task force, so they don't have to "reinvent the
wheel."
MR. POSHARD stated the department fully plans to participate in
that way.
TAPE 25, SIDE B
Number 0001
MR. POSHARD continued. The department plans to provide studies
that they have done to date, as well as, provide a listing of the
areas being considered in the current area plans.
Number 0019
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated the task force could stimulate some
"deep thinking." For example, the House Special Committee on
Utility Restructuring is realizing that electrical power cannot be
shared between communities unless there is a road, for the most
part. That, he said, is a big element of economic development
whether it's a lodge for tourism or a mine, for they both need
transportation and affordable electrical power. He further noted
that affordable electrical power cannot come into any of the
villages, that the state currently subsidizes at the rate of
millions of dollars a year, unless there is some type of road
between a hydropower source, for example.
Number 0068
MR. POSHARD replied he's sure that is something that the task force
would look at. The Department of Transportation & Public
Facilities is looking at those kinds of "things" in their area
plans from a cost-benefit standpoint. The department, however, has
a limited amount of transportation dollars to invest every year.
Number 0097
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Mr. Poshard what the last major road project
was in the state.
MR. POSHARD replied the Whittier road is the first one that comes
to mind. Besides the Whittier road, it's either the Dalton Highway
or the Parks Highway.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated the last major road was the Copper
River Highway. It was stopped, however, due to environmental
lawsuits.
MR. POSHARD stated the Department of Transportation & Public
Facilities has focused on bringing the existing transportation
corridors "up to snuff." The department has spent a lot of money,
particularly in urban areas, on adding lanes to help the ever
increasing traffic demands.
Number 0145
CHAIRMAN HALCRO closed the meeting to public testimony.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Representative Rokeberg to explain Amendment
1, which reads as follows:
Page 3, line 15, after Crooked Creek
DELETE period after Crooked Creek and substitute ";"
INSERT new subsection: "(21) Tonsina North Access
Road"
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG explained that Amendment 1 was requested by
a gentleman in the Kenny Lake area. [He did not indicate who the
gentleman was.] It provides for a roadway over the Trans-Alaska
Pipeline System. Representative Rokeberg further commented that
the testimony today has indicated that the adding of a name to the
list wouldn't preclude the task force from taking up other
roadways.
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY stated, "Or deleting any of these."
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG replied the idea is to prioritize. The
ultimate goal of the task force, he said, is to identify a handful
of projects that might have viability, get behind them, and start
the public process in an expeditious manner. He's very frustrated
because for half of his life in the state there hasn't been a road
built.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG continued. He further mentioned that Mr.
Lampert (ph), a famous Anchorage pioneer, homesteaded the land in
the Sears Mall area. Mr. Lampert (ph) and a friend took a D-9 cat
from Gambell Street and headed west to cut what's now called
Fireweed Lane. But before they got to what's now called Blueberry
Lane they took a lunch break which included a few beers. He said,
"So, if you ever drive down Fireweed Lane and there's a little lump
in the road and you notice that it's a little off angle, that's
why." The point is, that is the type of thinking that used to open
land and develop countries. He said,
I know that we need to be more cognizant of our
environment - waters, our fisheries. The totality of the
land that we need to husband. And believe me, I feel
strongly about that also. But, on the other hand, I
think we need to recapture a little bit of the pioneer
Alaskan spirit and open up some of the country.
Number 0290
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Representative Rokeberg whether he wants the
committee to adopt Amendment 1, given the fact that the task
force's purview would not be limited to the projects listed in the
bill.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG replied, "That's fine." He just wanted to
make it clear, for the record, that the task force is not limited
to the roadways listed in the bill.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Representative Halcro whether he could
amend Amendment 1 to include a new paragraph. It reads as follows:
(22) a road from Juneau to Atlin, B.C.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG agreed to the change made by Representative
Hudson.
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY made a motion to adopt Amendment 1, as
amended by Representative Hudson. There being no objection,
Amendment 1, as amended, was so adopted.
Number 0342
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN suggested adding a representative of the
Alaska Citizens Transportation Coalition to the task force. As
previous testimony has indicated, the coalition is composed of a
wide variety of individuals, municipal officials, and the like who
could contribute to the task force.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO referred to page 2, lines 5-7, which reads as
follows:
(9) one public member jointly appointed by the President
of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of
Representatives who resides in a rural area outside the
area that is directly connected to Anchorage by road ...
[page 2, lines 5-7, of the bill].
CHAIRMAN HALCRO stated it might be helpful to have someone serve on
the task force who is from a rural area that is not connected to
Anchorage in order to give another impression.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Chairman Halcro whether he's
suggesting that the rural member should be deleted from the task
force.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO replied, "No." The rural member would remain. The
language would read as follows:
... a member of the Citizens Transportation Coalition
that lives in a rural area that is not connected to
Anchorage by road.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Representative Kemplen to advise the
committee on whether the Alaska Citizens Transportation Coalition
is a represented group.
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN replied he believes that the Department of
Transportation & Public Facilities has had extensive dealings with
the coalition.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG indicated that it might be good to have
somebody who works with the coalition to act as an informal
liaison.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO stated a representative could indicate what the
coalition is doing in relation to them being a parallel committee.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG commented that he doesn't have a problem
with including a representative of the Alaska Citizens
Transportation Coalition.
Number 0536
CHAIRMAN HALCRO suggested the following language:
... who resides in a rural area outside of the area that
is directly connected to Anchorage by road and serves on
the Citizens Transportation Coalition.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Chairman Halcro whether the language
"directly connected to Anchorage" is needed.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO replied, "No."
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated the language should be so that a
rural member is retained in order to maintain a broad
representation.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON suggested the following language:
... who resides in a rural area and is an active member
of the Citizens Transportation Coalition.
Number 0536
CHAIRMAN HALCRO offered the following amendment to page 2, line 6,
of the CSHB 384(EDT), [Amendment 2] to read as follows:
... Speaker of the House of Representatives who resides
in a rural area and is a member of the Citizens
Transportation Coalition.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked whether there is any objection to adopting
Amendment 2. There being none, it was so adopted.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO entertained a motion to move the bill from
committee.
Number 0557
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY made a motion to move CSHB 384(EDT), version
1-LS1452\H, as amended, out of committee with individual
recommendations and attached fiscal note.
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN objected. He understands the purpose behind
the task force, but it causes his some concerns. He said,
When the legislature gets into taking an advocacy role
for a narrow part of a narrow piece of public policy it
winds up producing, from my observation, conflict and a
stalemate. And the result is that the resources that
were spent on that effort did not produce any significant
return. So, the investment is not a wise investment, and
there's an opportunity cost associated with any of those
types of endeavors. The comments by the department
[Department of Transportation & Public Facilities] that
where they cited the example of the privatization task
force where, even though they provided a zero fiscal
note, hundreds of hours of staff work went into that
effort. And, the product is what? Here were are close
to the end of the second session and we're going to
adjourn, where are the results? And that's the problem
that, I guess, that I have is the lack of results from
these types of initiatives. If you don't have a
well-balanced approach to crafting public policy in a
particular area you wind up with stalemate and it becomes
a waste of the public's dollar. And, unfortunately, as
I see this particular piece of legislation, I think,
we're headed down that road. It's going to wind up being
a waste of the public's money and I cannot support it.
Number 0688
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY stated if Representative Kemplen had spent
more time at the privatization meetings, which were mostly held in
his town [Anchorage], he would have a different attitude. The
Governor, he noted, is going to adopt some of the "things" from
that task force. He thinks before the session is over that there
will be some legislation in relation to privatization. He doesn't
think that the privatization task force was a waste of time, and
it's not fair to those who volunteered to participate on the task
force to say that what they did wasn't worthwhile.
Number 0733
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON commented the only tool and trade that
legislators have is good judgement. Legislators are constantly
dealing with brand new issues and trying to respond on behalf of
their constituents. Good judgement is a product of good
information. He sees the bill as a type of information tool, and
at the present time, legislators do not have the type of
information that is being called for in the task force. He doesn't
see how this type of information is going to be harmful, as
Representative Kemplen has indicated.
Number 0793
REPRESENTATIVE VIC KOHRING stated this is a good bill, and he's
looking forward to "firing up some D-9 cats and blasting some
roads."
Number 0804
CHAIRMAN HALCRO stated he shares Representative Kemplen's concern
and frustration with special committees in relation to their
effectiveness. But it's incumbent upon legislators to identify
areas that may need a closer look. He cited the Joint Special
Committee on Mergers was established last year by the legislature
to look at the BP-Arco merger. The legislature didn't have to
establish that special committee. They could have let the House
Resources Standing Committee or the House Special Committee on Oil
and Gas deal with the issue. But it was established because it was
thought that "fresh eyes" were needed to look at the issue. This
task force, however, is different. There would be substantial
public input. The task force would provide some fresh eyes to take
a look at a problem that would factor in economic benefits and the
overall quality of life. He thinks that the task force is a good
idea.
Number 0881
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN stated his real concern is that the task
force is a role for the civic sector where it's proper for advocacy
to be performed. For example, Commonwealth North Inc. has stepped
forward and allocated resources for a fairly significant analysis
of the state's fiscal dilemma. The organizations listed in the
bill that make up the membership of the task force should join
together in an advocacy type of coalition to analyze, promote, and
advocate for roads. The results could then be presented to the
legislature for review and acted upon. But for the legislature to
be spending the public's money to advance a particular, narrow
agenda seems to be reflective of special interest politics rather
than public interest politics.
CHAIRMAN HALCRO asked Representative Kemplen whether he still
maintains his objection.
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN replied, "Yes."
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Kohring, Hudson,
Halcro and Cowdery voted "yea." Representative Kemplen voted
"nay." By a vote of 4-1, CSHB 384(TRA) so moved from the House
Transportation Standing Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, Chairman
Halcro adjourned the House Transportation Standing Committee
meeting at 2:20 p.m.
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